# January '24 UPK Mixed Delivery Quality and Access Workgroup Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** 01-11-2024 Meeting\ **Created:** [January 8, 2024, 11:44pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141 "2024-01-08T23:44:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![emilyesteban](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@emilyesteban](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/emilyesteban)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 11:44pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/1 "2024-01-08T23:44:35Z")
1. Welcome and Previous Session Recap - Welcome and agenda review - Reflect on Workgroup progress to date - Public comment 1. UPK Mixed Delivery Quality and Access Workgroup Report: Development and Refinement - The Workgroup will explore the following overarching topics through a combination of presentations, facilitated discussions, and public comment. a. The feedback of the Workgroup and members of the public on the consolidated draft of the UPK Mixed Delivery Quality and Access Workgroup Report b. Practitioner perspectives on ways to increase quality and access - Public Comment ---
**Author:** ![emilyesteban](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@emilyesteban](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/emilyesteban)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 11:49pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/2 "2024-01-08T23:49:52Z")
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**Author:** ![emilyesteban](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@emilyesteban](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/emilyesteban)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/5 "2024-01-11T21:00:22Z")
This topic was automatically opened after 3 hours. ---
**Author:** ![aaronprice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@aaronprice](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/aaronprice)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 9:05pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/6 "2024-01-11T21:05:52Z")
We are now in agenda item **1. Welcome and Previous Session Recap** ---
**Author:** ![aaronprice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@aaronprice](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/aaronprice)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 9:45pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/7 "2024-01-11T21:45:17Z")
We are now in agenda item **2. UPK Mixed Delivery Quality and Access Workgroup Report: Development and Refinement** ---
**Author:** ![ajordan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@ajordan](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/ajordan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 9:54pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/8 "2024-01-11T21:54:14Z")
as a program operator of CSPP, Head Start, FCCH I disagree with a higher student to adult ratio of 10-1 and agree with a lower class size ratio of 20 especially as TK begins to serve more and more 4 year olds leaving CSPP to serve more 3 year olds. If we are talking true alignment, class sizes of majority 3 years should be capped at 16-17 students. ---
**Author:** ![ajordan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@ajordan](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/ajordan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 9:56pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/9 "2024-01-11T21:56:09Z")
instead simultaneously increasing teacher qualifications related to ratio changes, it would be recommended to eliminate associate teacher permit holders to serve a lead teachers. ---
**Author:** ![bronwyn.kennedy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@bronwyn.kennedy](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/bronwyn.kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 10:01pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/10 "2024-01-11T22:01:22Z")
The Child Development Permit Workgroup will hold their third meeting on January 16, 2024, virtually via Zoom from 9am-3pm. Members of the public are welcome to observe the workgroup meetings so that you can share your thoughts regarding this. There will be a space for public comment during the meeting and an opportunity for public comments at the end of the meeting. Here is the registration link: [Meeting Registration - Zoom](https://wested.zoom.us/meeting/register/tJMrce2qqjIoGdWo-0n84W2a4FFjoCt78ze1#/registration) ---
**Author:** ![bronwyn.kennedy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@bronwyn.kennedy](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/bronwyn.kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 10:02pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/11 "2024-01-11T22:02:27Z")
Thank you so much for your comment and the CTC welcomes you at the next Child Development Permit Workgroup meeting! ---
**Author:** ![jadcock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jadcock](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/jadcock)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 10:14pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/12 "2024-01-11T22:14:53Z")
I fully support ratio of 1:10 with four year old students; however, I am concerned about that ratio for 3 year old children. ---
**Author:** ![mmspence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f4b2a3/32.png) [@mmspence](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/mmspence)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 10:15pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/13 "2024-01-11T22:15:44Z")
I am also not sure why we are bundling the teacher qualifications with the ratios. I wonder if they could be two separate recommendations that stand apart from each other. ---
**Author:** ![adam.rodriguez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aca169/32.png) [@adam.rodriguez](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/adam.rodriguez)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 10:16pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/14 "2024-01-11T22:16:28Z")
Adding for information Only: Here are the Center Based Head Start Ratios |4 and 5 year olds|No more than 20 children enrolled in any class. No more than 17 children enrolled in any double session class. |3 year olds|No more than 17 children enrolled in any class. No more than 15 children enrolled in any double session class.| |Under 3 years old|No more than 8 or 9 children enrolled in any class, depending on the number of teachers.| ---
**Author:** ![mmspence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f4b2a3/32.png) [@mmspence](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/mmspence)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 10:17pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/15 "2024-01-11T22:17:42Z")
Adam what are the staff to student ratios in these situations? ---
**Author:** ![dyuriar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@dyuriar](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/dyuriar)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 10:21pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/16 "2024-01-11T22:21:35Z")
If we decrease the group size, it may make it difficult for contractors to earn their contracts. Perhaps this would be addressed in the rate reform group or another group that looks at how CSPP contracts are earned. ---
**Author:** ![aaronprice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@aaronprice](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/aaronprice)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 10:22pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/17 "2024-01-11T22:22:54Z")
We are now discussing recommendations related to **supporting collaboration** ---
**Author:** ![ajordan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@ajordan](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/ajordan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 10:23pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/18 "2024-01-11T22:23:25Z")
in head start we use 2:15-17 for 3 year olds and 2:18-20 for 4 year olds. we can write for a wavier to office of head start to have 24 in a classroom (if majority are 4), and if there is an additional staff member which thereby aligns with current CSPP ratios and class sizes (1:8; 3:24) 10-year limitation for associate teacher permit needs to be eliminated, it should not expire once someone qualifies for it and holds it after having been issued by CCTC i agree with a 1-8 for 3s and 1-10 for 4s, but i think 1-8 for both is still best having ratio changes tied to lead teacher qualifications, especially with increasing to AA level as minimum is not supportive of our existing workforce challenges; i would agree with the recommendation for ratio if the staff qualification were to not allow for associate teacher permit holders be lead teachers ratios to be followed should be based on the majority of children of a specific age (i.e. 3 or 4) ---
**Author:** ![adam.rodriguez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aca169/32.png) [@adam.rodriguez](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/adam.rodriguez)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 10:24pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/19 "2024-01-11T22:24:23Z")
working on this feedback. ---
**Author:** ![ajordan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@ajordan](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/ajordan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 10:26pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/20 "2024-01-11T22:26:29Z")
3 year olds get an adjustment factor which may make it equitable in terms of total revenue in a 24 student 4 year old classroom and a 20 student 3 year old classroom; it would be good to have the calculation included in our final report ---
**Author:** ![FabiolaGonzalez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@FabiolaGonzalez](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/FabiolaGonzalez)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 10:28pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/21 "2024-01-11T22:28:04Z")
suggested specific language on II.D Preschool Access Recomm: B.e. **Develop collaboration and coordination strategies** between SELPAs, etc. … to “ **implement** ” best practices for working with **children with special needs including but not limited to** Deaf, Hard of Hearing, Blind, and Deaf-Blind children. ---
**Author:** ![dyuriar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@dyuriar](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/u/dyuriar)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 10:31pm UTC](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141/22 "2024-01-11T22:31:04Z")
I am in disagreement with lowering the standard for the Associate Teacher Permit. Currently, the Associate Teacher Permit allows the holder to be the teacher in a classroom. In my area, there has been a big push for the CDA, which qualifies the CDA holders for the Associate Teacher Permit, and then when programs are in a bind, they are the teachers in the classroom. ECE already has low education standards for teachers, and I think the increase in the use of the CDA to fill Associate Teacher positions is actively moving us backward in professionalizing our field and increasing quality. It undermines our work to professionalize our field and advocate for worthy wages. The argument becomes, “You only need \_\_\_\_ to be an ECE teacher,” which then justifies the low wages to some. [Next page](https://upkmdqawg.discourse.group/t/january-24-upk-mixed-delivery-quality-and-access-workgroup-discussion/141.md?page=2)